{"id":15421,"date":"2025-09-22T21:03:39","date_gmt":"2025-09-22T15:33:39","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/johnsonfrancis.org\/techworld\/?p=15421"},"modified":"2025-09-22T21:03:43","modified_gmt":"2025-09-22T15:33:43","slug":"revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/johnsonfrancis.org\/techworld\/revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination\/","title":{"rendered":"Revising my ladder-line loop antenna combination"},"content":{"rendered":"<iframe loading=\"lazy\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/zBBNi9iDl_s?si=R1HhQaPmAltk15Dc\" title=\"YouTube video player\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I had posted my view on why my <a href=\"https:\/\/johnsonfrancis.org\/techworld\/why-is-it-that-my-full-loop-antenna-for-40m-with-ladder-line-not-working-on-40m\/\">ladder-line with full wave loop antenna meant for 40m<\/a> was not tuning well on 40m, while it had good results on higher bands. As the ladder line and loop antenna were made of a single continuous wire, I had to remove a few &#8216;steps&#8217; of the ladder line in order to lengthen the loop antenna. Brought down the line from the mounting point and measured out a segment involving three &#8216;steps&#8217;. That was about 66 cm long and would free 132 cm of wire for the loop, meaning that the loop will be longer by 132 cm.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Removed three &#8216;steps&#8217; using a wire stripper as a cutter and here are the salvaged pieces of drip irrigation tubes. I have stored them for potential future uses.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This is the &#8216;freed&#8217; segment for including in the loop antenna while mounting it back in position.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pulled up the end of the loop antenna so that is now at about 5m height. There is some distortion of the ladder line at the feed point and the take off is not exactly at right angles, which would have been the ideal. Feedpoint has also moved from the corner to a little bit on the side.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I had mentioned earlier that the third segment of my telescopic mast had telescoped back into the second segment and I could not get it back. That was because the second segment could not be brought into the first segment and seemed to be stuck. Short of bringing down the whole mast, I used this short scrap handle to strike on the the locking mechanism of the segments to gradually free the stuck region. I succeeded in it and could bring the the top segment of the mast within the reach my hand while on a step ladder.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now the third segment of the telescopic mast could be raised almost up to its maximum level. Each segment of the telescopic mast is about 8 feet long.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This red mark tells us that we have exceeded the maximum level up to which the segment can be pushed up. If you continue pushing it up, the segment will come out and it will be a mess. When the red line is seen, the upper segment is pushed back a bit so that the line is not seen above the connector. Then the connector is locked using the screw mechanism.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Though the mast looks very tall, this is an oblique view from the base. The loop antenna can be seen at a lower level as it is yet to be pulled up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You can see three wires on this mast. Top most one is upper part of the full wave loop antenna. Middle one is a portion of one limb of the 80m dipole. Third  and lowermost one is the lower part of the full wave loop antenna. Additional guy wires of nylon ropes can also be seen to one side.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Tuning on 40m with ATU-100, residual SWR 3.99, capacitance added 367 pF, inductance added: 1.83 \u03bcH. Fortunately, this residual SWR could be tuned with the internal antenna tuner of the radio, though theoretically, it should be able to tune only up to an SWR of 3.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Here we can see the automatic internal antenna tuner in FT-710 radio in action. After trying various combinations of capacitance and inductance within as can be presumed by the rattling of relays, it has achieved a final SWR of 1 for the radio. &#8216;HI SWR&#8217; will light up during the tuning process intermittently, which is the normal process of tuning. ATU 100 will continue to show the previous value as changes in this step are occurring only within the radio. While using two tuners in series, it is desirable to disable the AUTO function in ATU-100. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">While the previous test was at 7.100 MHz, the current one is at 7.01 MHz, the lower part of the 40m band. Here the ATU-100 was able to tune to an SWR of 1.03 by adding 617 pF of capacitance and 2.2 \u03bcH of inductance, without the need for &#8216;touching up&#8217; with the internal antenna tuner.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The tuning holds good for our favourite 7055 kHz ragchew frequency as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But that was not the case for 7100 kHz which showed residual SWR to be &#8216;touched up&#8217; by the internal antenna tuner. While using two tuners in series, I usually tune for one suitable frequency with ATU-100 and then &#8216;touch up&#8217; for other frequencies with the internal antenna tuner, without retuning on ATU-100.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">SWR on 14.215 MHz was about 3 without tuner. That can be easily &#8216;touched up&#8217; with the internal antenna tuner itself, without the aid of ATU-100.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Tried tuning with ATU-100 at 14.020 MHz, to know the capacitance and inductance being added. It was much lesser than on 40m, at 47 pF and 0.61 \u03bcH respectively. So I expect better performance of this antenna on 20m than on 40m. I presume that losses within the tuner will be much lower.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Tuning with ATU-100 on 21.070 MHz, inductance added was only 0.45 \u03bcH and capacitance added was 122 pF.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I was quite happy to see my signals being picked up at DP0GVN at Antarctica on 15m today. I have never seen that before with any of my antennas so far!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This is the NanoVNA sweep, showing minimum SWR at 19.750 MHz, with SWR of 1.911.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At 13.750 MHz near the 20m band, it was 3.247. SWR was much higher at lower frequencies, explaining the ease of tuning on 14 and 21 MHz amateur radio bands. Multi-band operation with a single full loop antenna and a ladder line is always a challenge. I may have to change the 4:1 balun between the ladder line and the short segment of coax coming inside the shack to 9:1 as the calculated impedance of the ladder line comes to around 466 ohms. Impedance of the loop antenna cannot be calculated easily as it is in a very irregular shape. Technically, it is possible to change the impedance of a full loop antenna all the way from 3 ohms to 280 ohms by changing the shape of mounting and feed point, as per the interesting article on <a href=\"https:\/\/practicalantennas.com\/theory\/loop\/full-wave\/\">theory of full wave loops<\/a> by WB6BYU. Antenna gain will also change significantly with changes in shape, mounting and height from the ground. All these are avenues for experimentation for amateur radio operators depending on facilities available at their location.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today evening I was able to have a 20 minutes QSO with VU2LAU on 7110 kHz and got a 5,9+10 dB report as well. But propagation to VU2ENT was not good. May be the orientation of my antenna and VU2LAU&#8217;s antenna are good for reception at both ends. Noise level was just above S1 during most of the contact soon after 5 pm with this antenna. Tuning parameters on ATU-100 was 470 pF and 1.83  \u03bcH, with residual SWR 3.8 needing &#8216;touching up&#8217; with internal antenna tuner of FT-710. We had a nice discussion on used LiFePO4 batteries from vehicles for ham radio shack which he was using at present.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I had posted my view on why my ladder-line with full wave loop antenna meant for 40m was not tuning well on 40m, while it had good results on higher bands. As the ladder line and loop antenna were made of a single continuous wire, I had to remove a few &#8216;steps&#8217; of the ladder [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":15436,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[7],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-15421","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-amateur-radio-ham-radio"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.8 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Revising my ladder-line loop antenna combination - Johnson&#039;s Techworld<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/johnsonfrancis.org\/techworld\/revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Revising my ladder-line loop antenna combination - Johnson&#039;s Techworld\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I had posted my view on why my ladder-line with full wave loop antenna meant for 40m was not tuning well on 40m, while it had good results on higher bands. As the ladder line and loop antenna were made of a single continuous wire, I had to remove a few &#8216;steps&#8217; of the ladder [&hellip;]\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/johnsonfrancis.org\/techworld\/revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Johnson&#039;s Techworld\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2025-09-22T15:33:39+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2025-09-22T15:33:43+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/johnsonfrancis.org\/techworld\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/Revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1200\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"675\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Johnson Francis\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Johnson Francis\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"6 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/johnsonfrancis.org\\\/techworld\\\/revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/johnsonfrancis.org\\\/techworld\\\/revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Johnson Francis\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/johnsonfrancis.org\\\/techworld\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/6201c843e80ccd3578e6196b1d007027\"},\"headline\":\"Revising my ladder-line loop antenna combination\",\"datePublished\":\"2025-09-22T15:33:39+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2025-09-22T15:33:43+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/johnsonfrancis.org\\\/techworld\\\/revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":1159,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/johnsonfrancis.org\\\/techworld\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/6201c843e80ccd3578e6196b1d007027\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/johnsonfrancis.org\\\/techworld\\\/revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/johnsonfrancis.org\\\/techworld\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2025\\\/09\\\/Revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination.jpg\",\"articleSection\":[\"Amateur Radio (Ham Radio)\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/johnsonfrancis.org\\\/techworld\\\/revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/johnsonfrancis.org\\\/techworld\\\/revising-my-ladder-line-loop-antenna-combination\\\/\",\"name\":\"Revising my ladder-line loop antenna combination - 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